Foot or no Foot.

[ken rodgers]

Hi All,
I was wondering what your views are on a bowl or vase requiring a foot
AT our club a couple of years ago a demonstrator(RPT) judging  members work insisted that bowls need a foot, and judged accordingly.
That is fine  - its his opinion - but is there any such rule ?
/

[Bryan Milham]

No rule I know of. It all comes down to aesthetics and what looks right.

However if it's to be a functional item it definitely needs a big enough base (foot) to be stable in use.

[Roderick Evans]

Hi Ken
It looks as if my vase has kicked off this discussion. It's not really a" foot " it's just the bottom of the curve of the vase. The base has been undercut and the  vase does indeed sit on the outer circumferance. If youd like to see the base I can post a photo. I personally like vases and hollow forms without a foot.
Roderick

[julcle]

I usually try to convert the chucking point into the base of the piece, I haven't progressed to vases as yet but as said already if it looks right it usually is. This is the bottom of one of my bowl/ dishes made some time ago. it is nice and stable on the table and to my mind doesn't look out of place either.

[BrianH]

WHY, oh why do we all try to find... or invent!... hard and fast rules for woodyturning? Its your hobby so you make it up to your own requirements. Who has the right to say someone turning wet chipboard with a sharpened spoon and sanding it with half a brick is wrong? Certainly not me cos my spoon is invariably blunt .
While I am on my Easter rant.... the word 'cheating' has no place in a woodyturners vocabulary...I know that for a fact because I wrote the rulebook!!!!
Tarra
Brian

[julcle]

Isn't that called a shortcut Brian ?

[bodrighywood]

Whilst there are some basic design guidelines such as the rule of thirds etc the only rules IMHO are that you are pleased with your finished piece and / or if you are making it for sale that someone out there with the money likes it. There are fashions as with everything but a quick Google of bowls vases etc will turn up a huge variety. Look at Japanese and Chinese porcelain for exmple for ideas about what is right and wrong, soon  realise that there are very few.

Pete

[Eric Harvey]

I make alot of my bowls without any foot at all,so when things are put in them they find their own balance,and don`t fall over if the foot is to small,on others I put a foot or just do a small indent in the bowl base,its entirly up to the individual wether or not there`s a foot,regards,

Eric.

[KimG]

Reading Richard Raffan's books on bowl design I would say it depends quite a bit on the bowl itself, sometimes a foot can make a bland bowl much more interesting, so it definitely has a function beyond providing basic stability.

One thing Richard makes clear, a bowl will be measured as good or bad in the end by it's profile as grain and colour will fade away with time, whereas the shape is permanent, so get the shape right (with or without a foot) and you will have turned a very good bowl.

Turned bowl design and the art of turned bowls are tow of his books every bowl turner should try to acquire and read, there is much more to a good bowl than constant wall thickness!

[ken rodgers]

To All,
Your replies were just as I expected- there is as such no Rule Book!! - and a good job too.

I sometimes add a foot to a piece if I think the design actually requires it, and also enhances it.

Regards
Ken

[Mark Sanger]

Hi All,
I was wondering what your views are on a bowl or vase requiring a foot
AT our club a couple of years ago a demonstrator(RPT) judging  members work insisted that bowls need a foot, and judged accordingly.
That is fine  - its his opinion - but is there any such rule ?
/

Hi Ken

I had written a rant in relation to the (RPT) demonstrator and his statement. Yes it is his opinion and as such has no place during judging, one of the reasons I do not believe in competitions as very few people judge them objectively and as such they can divert the way people think about their work and restrict development.

I decided to remove my rant as it was not constructive.

There are no rules other than being safe. Yes there are a few formula for design that have been used for centuries and you may decide to use these as they are a good foundation to study.

[thebowlerhattedturner]

I wish I had read Mark's rant because this reminded me that years ago in another club we had an RPT who did the club judging and I used to make things with the details that would get me a higher score with him,but in actual fact all that happened was it restricted my own ideas.
As an RPT now, I am very careful when asked to judge a club competition. I usually say what I am looking for in a piece. If there is detail that is meant to be crisp I look at the crispness,I look for tooling marks and finish among other things until eventually I look at the shape/style/design.I have to say that the piece I normally choose is the piece I like the most.
Regards
John BHT

[Mark Sanger]

 

I wish I had read Mark's rant because this reminded me that years ago in another club we had an RPT who did the club judging and I used to make things with the details that would get me a higher score with him,but in actual fact all that happened was it restricted my own ideas.
As an RPT now, I am very careful when asked to judge a club competition. I usually say what I am looking for in a piece. If there is detail that is meant to be crisp I look at the crispness,I look for tooling marks and finish among other things until eventually I look at the shape/style/design.I have to say that the piece I normally choose is the piece I like the most.
Regards
John BHT

  Some things are left said through our work as it can take a lot of energy which is better channeled in producing new fresh ideas. Come and see me at Yandles and we can discuss both our thoughts.

[woodndesign]

Hi All,
I was wondering what your views are on a bowl or vase requiring a foot
AT our club a couple of years ago a demonstrator(RPT) judging  members work insisted that bowls need a foot, and judged accordingly.
That is fine  - its his opinion - but is there any such rule ?
/

Hi Ken

I had written a rant in relation to the (RPT) demonstrator and his statement. Yes it is his opinion and as such has no place during judging, one of the reasons I do not believe in competitions as very few people judge them objectively and as such they can divert the way people think about their work and restrict development.

I decided to remove my rant as it was not constructive.

There are no rules other than being safe. Yes there are a few formula for design that have been used for centuries and you may decide to use these as they are a good foundation to study.

Mark, you're spot on in your comment ... I've seen clubs where members judge just like that .. even to the point that the nod is that's J bloggs piece ...  as he must have 1st ... no one should know as to who's piece any of them are, BUT ..

Competitions can be good for the livelihood of a Club or Event .. which is where John BHT rightly looks at judging the competition on the piece and it's merits ... But then few at times enter them or vote even, due more to how they should judge ... It's like the many who don't comment on a piece posted on here.

Cheers   David

[Mark Sanger]

Hi All,
I was wondering what your views are on a bowl or vase requiring a foot
AT our club a couple of years ago a demonstrator(RPT) judging  members work insisted that bowls need a foot, and judged accordingly.
That is fine  - its his opinion - but is there any such rule ?
/

Hi Ken

I had written a rant in relation to the (RPT) demonstrator and his statement. Yes it is his opinion and as such has no place during judging, one of the reasons I do not believe in competitions as very few people judge them objectively and as such they can divert the way people think about their work and restrict development.

I decided to remove my rant as it was not constructive.

There are no rules other than being safe. Yes there are a few formula for design that have been used for centuries and you may decide to use these as they are a good foundation to study.

Mark, you're spot on in your comment ... I've seen clubs where members judge just like that .. even to the point that the nod is that's J bloggs piece ...  as he must have 1st ... no one should know as to who's piece any of them are, BUT ..

Competitions can be good for the livelihood of a Club or Event .. which is where John BHT rightly looks at judging the competition on the piece and it's merits ... But then few at times enter them or vote even, due more to how they should judge ... It's like the many who don't comment on a piece posted on here.

Cheers   David

Hi David

The main issue for me is that how can I or anyone judge a piece made by someone else if they;

Don't know how long the person has been turning for and what they intended with a piece.

This is also one of the reasons I personally find it difficult to comment on work at times in forums as just because I believe something should be done in a specific way, it does not mean I am correct and I am mindful that any comments I may give could be seen as negative and may therefore have a negative effect on the person who has made the piece.

Also who am I to say how people should do stuff.

I have seen too much of this in woodturning and the effects it has on people, and the craft as a whole which has suffered greatly due to those that rebuke change, this being one of the reasons I am slowly moving into sculptural work. Part of a natural transition also. 

Many I think don't comment on pieces in forums as when they do give their thoughts the people asking for critique get upset and defensive, so there is little point unless we are going to give positive comments.