Author Topic: Help. Another Failure!!  (Read 4279 times)

Ralph

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Help. Another Failure!!
« on: August 04, 2015, 08:56:11 PM »
Hi All.

I turned the outer bowl from beech, then cut a curve in it and glued it to another bowl made from Sapele. But as you can see, I'm getting a very bad finish on the edge of the beech.
The bottom and top of the beech I can finish on the lathe, but the curve I can't. Being a curve!!
Can anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong.

Suggestions welcome.

Ralph




Offline Paul Hannaby

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Re: Help. Another Failure!!
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2015, 09:12:51 PM »
Hi Ralph,
It looks like that top red circle is partly due to the crack in the bowl wall. The edges all seem rough, which is possibly an indication of blunt tools or incorrect technique. What tool are you using to shape the bowl?


Offline Dave Atkinson

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Re: Help. Another Failure!!
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2015, 09:18:10 PM »
Try cutting from the air onto the wood.  Looks like you're cutting off the edge.  Doesn't matter it's on a curve.  I would use a fine shearing cut with a freshly sharpened tool.

Hope that helps Dave

Offline bodrighywood

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Re: Help. Another Failure!!
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2015, 09:22:55 PM »
I would cut the edges with a skew giving a sharp deliniation. As Dave says, straight in from the air as it were. You seem to be getting tear out on the beech anyway which would possibly be the blunt tools mentioned.

pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Ralph

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Re: Help. Another Failure!!
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2015, 09:34:43 PM »
Hi Paul.

I'm using a bowl gouge, which I'm happy is as sharp as I can get.  I sharper on the Robert Sorby Pro. So this would indicate a technique error.

Dave. What do you mean by "cutting from the air" and "sheering cut"

Ralph

Ralph

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Re: Help. Another Failure!!
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2015, 09:39:06 PM »
The problem is Pete, is that the inner edge is curved, so defining the edges will straighten off the curve.
Assuming I have understood your suggestion correctly.


Cheers.

Ralph

Ralph

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Re: Help. Another Failure!!
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2015, 09:46:50 PM »
Hopefully this photo might explain better what I'm trying to turn.

Ralph


Offline bodrighywood

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Re: Help. Another Failure!!
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2015, 09:58:29 PM »
Ah, I think I see what you mean, you would need to mount the bowl off centre somehow. Could be done between centre but fiddly.

Pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Ralph

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Re: Help. Another Failure!!
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2015, 10:10:09 PM »
Thanks Pete, but mounting off center would still straighten the curve, but at an angle.
This curve is like a roller coaster running around the bowl ranging from 18mm to 35mm as it goes around the bowl.
I think I'll need to take a few more photos as I'm having difficulty explaining what I'm trying to do.

Many thanks for your suggestions.

Ralph

Offline fuzzyturns

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Re: Help. Another Failure!!
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2015, 10:21:38 PM »
Ralph, the problem that you have here is that with the curve running diagonal to the main bowl, there will always be a place where the tool runs from wood into air. At that very point, even with a perfectly sharp tool, the wood fibers will have a tendency to bend rather than being cut, because they are unsupported. And that's when you end up with those feathery bits hanging off the edge, or worse (mostly in end grain) being ripped off. You have both.

I can only see several ways out of this:
  • follow Pete's recommendation (although this would result in other difficulties, because the turning axis is now offset from the main bowl axis, and therefore you end up with varying wall thicknesses).
  • turn the outside bowl finished (possibly including sanding) before cutting it and fitting it to the inside bowl.
  • don't cut the curved groove until right at the end. You could achieve this in two ways:
    • Only glue the two bowls together with hotglue, which can then be softened, so that you can remove the outside bowl for the cut or
    • glue them together for good, and use carving tools for the groove.

In any case, this is a challenging project. Good luck with it.
Remember, if you don't push boundaries (and yourself), you just stand still. The cost of this is that sometimes it doesn't work the way you first thought, and you may have to start again. I am pretty sure that once you succeed, you will have a rather marvellous piece.

Offline Mark Sanger

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Re: Help. Another Failure!!
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2015, 10:26:52 PM »
Not sure how to get around this but I am sure Allen Carter would be able to help you out as he is a master at the recess bowl and I am sure he has been through these issues.

Offline woodndesign

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Re: Help. Another Failure!!
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2015, 10:37:19 PM »

Hi Ralph, Few more posts since I'd first started written this .. then timed out ..

 As I understand you've the tear out, as circled to the curved edge itself which you're after help and should there be away to turn it out.

Thoughts are as I see it the outer bowl is lost, you'll not, other than by free hand clean it up .. Sad I know, yet you'll have learnt from the experience and the advice given.

I know it's not the news you'd hoped for.  David
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,"  By Dickens ''''

Offline Paul Hannaby

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Re: Help. Another Failure!!
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2015, 12:09:53 AM »
Looking at the torn grain over the whole surface of the bowl the problem appears to be more than just the tricky edges. Perhaps you should work on a standard bowl and get your tooling to the stage where you can cleanly cut the outside of the bowl before attempting something as tricky as this?

The choice of sharpening system is no guarantee of a sharp tool! Whenever I have a problem, my first action is to resharpen the tool. If that doesn't solve the problem, then I look elsewhere.

Shear or sheer cutting is using the tool so the edge is presented to the wood at an acute angle so it cuts the wood in a slicing action. This puts less pressure on the wood and will result in a cleaner cut surface with less (or no) torn grain. Again, if you aren't familiar with this technique, practice it on a standard bowl before trying something like this.

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: Help. Another Failure!!
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2015, 07:03:21 AM »
Hi Ralph,
 not sure if I understand exactly what you are trying to achieve but from what I see in the picture it appears that the inner bowl and outer bowl are not a perfect fit and this is what you need I feel. If that is the case that would explain why there is a split in the outer bowl, you may think it a good fit but in reality you would be pushing the outer bowl out of shape slighly therefore putting it under stress, it does not look as though the glue joint is very good.
      I agree with the comments made about sharp tools but as far as the sheer cut is concerned if you cannot do that try using a scraper instead. One of the simplest
tips I can give you is stop the lathe and "walk through" your cut before doing it.

Offline malcy

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Re: Help. Another Failure!!
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2015, 09:23:33 AM »
It looks to me as if you are trying to make a wave pattern in your bowl. May I suggest you contact John beaver at johnbeaver@verizon.net. He has mastered the technique of making wave forms in many aspects in his turnings. He is in California but I am sure he will be able to help you with the creation of what you are trying to do ( if that be a wave form). Hope that helps. Malcolm.