General Category > General Discussion
Really
Mark Hancock:
This thread/topic has raised many issues that have been around all the years I have been turning professionally which is now over 30 years and by that I mean earning my living from my turning be it producing, demonstrating or tutoring so that I can pay the mortgage, pay the bills and put food on the table.
My way of thinking nowadays is that woodturning in the UK is mainly considered as a hobby pastime with work produced being sold at craft fairs at prices that under values the skills of all turners because many are hobbyists just wanting a few more pennies to buy more wood to turn. Generally they are retired and/or have another source of income i.e. pension so thoughts of operating as a business and making an income are not considered. Consequently Joe public expects ridiculously low prices when buying turned work so those at these selling events who are trying to make a living have to compete price wise to make any sales/income. And so the issue continues. It’s not helped by the lack of support or acknowledgement of the craft by the Arts Council and Craft Council – sorry I don’t know if there is any difference between the two as I gave up on them years ago. I had many conversations about this issue with Ray (Key) and can give a number of examples to support this claim of lack of support but won’t here. Having written that it saddens me that many viewing this won’t know about Ray and what he shrived to do for the craft; this forum would not exist if it wasn’t for Ray. It interesting that in other countries this isn’t such a big issue and it explains why many of our top UK turners sell and work mainly abroad. I know of a number of turners who have even emigrated because it makes good business sense to do so regardless of the cost in doing so.
So back to comments in the thread.
1. Ikea bowls; Those buying such items wouldn’t be considering the items from Andy F – different market place different customer base
2. Time taken to produce item; Irrelevant in this case! That presumes turning is just a production process and one applies basic accounting principles to price i.e. material cost, labour cost, overheads costing plus mark up. If a production turner then yes time is a factor but not for one off pieces of work as in this case.
3. Gallery sets the final price; Wrong!. It depends on the relationship between the gallery and the artist. In my case I set the retail price and accepted the consequences regarding commission and VAT. My reasoning for this approach was that I didn’t want to upset my regular customers. Imagine one buying a piece and then seeing a similar piece priced less elsewhere simply because of a different commission rate at a different gallery.
4. Price; Pricing is a game when making one off pieces. Can anyone reading this produce exactly the same item? I’ll answer that for you – NO. The next question is what reputation/respect do you have? If recognised as a turning artist (hate that word) there is a premium to be added to the price. A great example of this I found years ago when the Del Mano gallery existed as a physical outlet (who has heard of this gallery?). I saw a piece by David Ellesworth (know who he is?) on their web site. The price was $20,000!
Rant over and I do apologise to anyone that feels offended by my comments. That never was my intention. I only wished to give another view point.
michaelb:
Today's world is upside down if the gallery is closed as it should be sell it any way you can e-bay etc and if someone wants it great. Regarding Ikea I make Windsor Chairs and customers are happy to pay my price which is 10 time Ikea hopefully mine will be an air-loom Ikea ???
Mark Hancock:
--- Quote from: michaelb on April 19, 2020, 08:44:21 PM ---Today's world is upside down if the gallery is closed as it should be sell it any way you can e-bay etc and if someone wants it great. Regarding Ikea I make Windsor Chairs and customers are happy to pay my price which is 10 time Ikea hopefully mine will be an air-loom Ikea ???
--- End quote ---
Spot on! Your customers know what they are getting, chairs made with the heart and soul of the maker and that is part of what they are buying.
bodrighywood:
Far from being offended Mark much of what you are saying is what I have ben trying to get across (unsuccessfully) to turners for some time. You are far more succint than me. My view is that as long as there are turners willing to sell their work for cost then the craft / art in this country will always be seen as something of little value. I know of the Del Mano Gallery and have heard of Dave Ellesworth and it is a shame that few if any such veunues exist in this country. I tried for some years to get my work into galleries and ended up assuming I simply wasn't good enough until one (n ameless) pointed out that wood doesn't sell as an art form very well. When I asked why they said it was because it was so easily obtained cheaply in the church hall fairs, their words not mine. 'nuff said.
Pete
The Bowler Hatted Turner:
Mark your mention of Ray Key made me smile, one of my most endearing memories of Ray was when I was on the AWGB committee at one of the seminars in Loughborough. Ray sat in the office holding court with some of the world's great turners around him and I was spellbound (and a little bit star struck I must admit)and I didn't want to go to work for fear of missing what he was saying.
I take on board your comments about setting the price and I have to say having read them I agree with you.
Pete one gallery that I approached told me if my work was not priced above £600 each piece not to bother contacting them. I suppose I could have upped the price on some pieces ( I have sold work in the past for £5,000 plus)but the pieces I had at the time were not worth that and it would not have been right to artificially inflate the price just to get it in the gallery.
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