General Category > General Discussion
Really
Twisted Trees:
The problem is that mechanisation, and industrial scale copy lathes have killed a huge part of the turners industry, just as chipboard and angle brackets killed the cabinet makers industry, but to some extent worse, because you can feed a copy lathe stair spindles and it will do a better job of replicating that than the best turners exactly similar versions.
This leaves jobbing turners competing for those few clients who appreciate that "exactly similar" is actually a very desirable quality, and those customers are the ones with an artistic eye.
All this feeds into the spiral of all remaining turners must be artists, which they (I) am / are not. Yes I can replicate an artistic piece, and because the medium we work in is unique on almost every piece, it will be a unique piece, but can I conceptualise and create it? well yes sometimes I accidently come up with something, but that is not the same as being an artist.
Way back up the top of the thread I referenced the "Unmade bed" being worth £2.2 million, personally I feel that particular piece of art is a rip off of Procul Harem's song lyrics. That aside the price was paid and the value established, probably true that the removal costs between each exhibition cost more than the materials themselves, so material cost is irrelevant.
As for the professionals, sorry it isn't mostly the amateurs that killed the market, it is the machines that forced the jobbing turners to need to be craftsmen and even artists. Pricing is hard to figure out, I was once told twice material cost for a beginner 3 x when good, that doesn't cut it in the real world, so I just look at what others are charging and stay in the same sort of zone, and aim to improve my turning not for the chance of extra monetary reward, but because doing what I feel is good things with precious timber is my main objective. 10 years in and I am after learning how to make a hollow form to my satisfaction this year, have made a start and almost got the hang of setting up and using the tool that will help me achieve that, by the end of the year I will make something I like, it will be worth £28,000 I suspect, reasonable for a years work?
Where was I going with this rambling... Oh yes...
In the world of art many musicians, and turners go unnoticed, while others soar to popularity and the money follows the fame. If you are lucky enough to be Justin Bieber (or any other known name) get what you can while you can, most us us are in pub bands covering expenses, and having fun.
burywoodturners:
I have an email today from EBay, saying that the price is now reduced by £250, now yours for £3250
Ron
willstewart:
I suppose the issue is what does it actually sell for. But individual pieces by other craftspeople, such as jewellery or even hand-made jumpers can sell for sums in the thousands. Certainly I wonder if more pieces should be in the hundreds rather than the tens!
bodrighywood:
I think a lot of things would be at least in the hundreds if we charged apropriately for them. Think of an hourly rate. add cost of material, plus peripherals such as polish, lacquer, abrasive, and an alllowance for tools etc. Not many things would be a tenner would they? I agree that a professional would be charging less for labout as they would (presumably) be quicker but thta would probably be balanced by charging a higher rate due to experience etc. One turner I know charges £40 an hour, most of us less but anyone selling should sgtart at £10 an hour minimum IMHO.
Pete
Wooddust:
--- Quote from: bodrighywood on April 24, 2020, 04:18:35 PM ---I think a lot of things would be at least in the hundreds if we charged apropriately for them. Think of an hourly rate. add cost of material, plus peripherals such as polish, lacquer, abrasive, and an alllowance for tools etc. Not many things would be a tenner would they? I agree that a professional would be charging less for labout as they would (presumably) be quicker but thta would probably be balanced by charging a higher rate due to experience etc. One turner I know charges £40 an hour, most of us less but anyone selling should sgtart at £10 an hour minimum IMHO.
Pete
--- End quote ---
Like almost anything that people make it is only worth what somebody is prepared to pay for it.
Another argument is why should something individually made only be the Provence of the "middle classes" because that is what it would become if we all looked to sell at the rates suggested.
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