How much does your bowl cost?

[thebowlerhattedturner]

So another rant from me!
     I have just been to a local craft outlet as one of the guys from the club said to have a look. There was the usual pottery(very good designs) and jewellry and paintings, it was a bit like any craft outlet anywhere in the country,however..........apart from the pens that were there,made by one of the club members and of very good quality and sensibly priced there was the work of 2 other turners that I have never heard of. It was absolute rubbish,no attempt had been made to get rid of the torn grain made by bad turning techniques and there were still sanding marks left from what looked like 80grit sandpaper. Now I appreciate that this type of finish may be shabby chic or rustic or provincial or whatever name you want to give as an excuse for poor finishing and I may be in the minority by not liking it, but what really got my goat was a poorly turned and finished Zebrano plate up for sale at £12 when I know that the blank cost at least twice that amount!!!
   So if you live locally to me and you are responsible for all this rubbish do me a favour and charge at least what the wood is worth.
And if you genuinely want to be a woodturner come along to the local club and see how it is done correctly.
Regards
John BHT
sorry guys, rant over

[bodrighywood]

Have to agree with you John. I have stopped doing most craft fairs due to the stuff that is for sale. I have been indiscreet and asked one or two how they can afford to sell at those prices and was told that they were only looking to cover costs. I have taken things off my stall at times as I have notice a fault in it as I laid it out. We all miss sanding marks, tool marks etc occasionally but there's no excuse for tatty shoddy workmanship or stupid prices.

pete

[Bryan Milham]

John,

There were a series of craft markets leading up to Christmas here in W-s-M I walked around. Two stands selling various wooden articles both the same, underselling themselves and quite honestly, very little I considered well turned.

Then there was a pen turner, selling at prices that reflected the work and pen kits needed, thankfully doing what looked like a good trade.

You're right of course, but unfortunately very few hobby turners realise the impact they have on themselves and their fellow turners by such actions.

[Doug Barratt]

It`s just free market economy, I might not like the fact that there are other tradesmen out there who will quote lower prices for jobs than me, but I either have to drop my prices, or prove to customers that my standard of work is worth the extra money.

I don`t think it`s correct saying cheaper items impact on other turners, these people are selling goods for a price their customers are willing to pay. Chances are these customers would be unwilling to pay more for the same item regardless of the improvement in quality, I`ve certainly found this to be true in my line of work.

Finally, I was bought up in a family business & whilst there are times I don`t believe it,  I was taught that the customer is always right as it is them who are paying my wage. So the Idea of going on a public internet forum frequented by my potential customers & insulting both them & their workmanship doesn`t seem like good business sense to me.  

[thebowlerhattedturner]

Doug I read your comments with interest but I think you may have missed the point that I was trying to make or perhaps I didn't voice it correctly, in which case I apologise. I do not mind other turners selling their goods at a lower price than mine, I do not even mind if the quality of their goods is not quite 100%, we all have to learn. What I do object to is knowing that the items on sale are selling for less than the cost of the timber in the first place, that doesn't help anyone. Ok if you use free or found timber you can keep your prices low but to use an exotice piece worth 24 quid and sell the finished item for 12 you have to admit to that being a bit off.
Regards
John BHT

[Doug Barratt]

I agree at face value it does seem foolish to loose money on a piece.

That said how long do you hold onto a piece if it`s not selling?
Also whilst the present price may be £24 he may have bought the timber years ago, I certainly have blanks that I bought 7 years ago that still have the price on & they were considerably cheaper than I`d have to pay today.

There are lots of reasons why people do craft fairs & sell at the prices they do & whilst I might think they undersell themselves I don`t see it as my right to criticise them.
Indeed I have no knowledge of their situation, I once wrote some articles for woodwork magazines when work was thin on the ground in 2009, the money was pathetic for the work involved but I had a family to keep so I did it, I also at that time sold some of my wood turning at lower prices than I`d have liked but that was the situation I found myself in.

It`s easy to criticise & belittle others when we don`t know the reasoning behind their actions.

Cheers.    

[woody]

This subject could be quite a mine field I have sold at craft fairs, flower festivals,school fetes and in Galleries and to be honest I have seen some very good quality workmanship and some very shoddy workmanship in all of them and some dodgy prices at both ends of the scale.
I have sold at some places with people opposite me selling at half the prices I was selling at but I still sold a lot more than he did why quality will always sell itself we all have the right to ask what we want for an item and we all have a right to an opinion on the quality and the price but  I can still remember when I first started selling my hand crafted goods and the quality wasn't as good as it should have been but I was chuffed to pieces when someone wanted to pay for them also I can remember when I had a family to support and times were hard you had to take what ever you could get so I am very slow to judge others on what they sell and the price they charge at the end of the day I can just walk away and still demand what I want for my goods after all it is a free world and competition is healthy and we all want a bargain even in the high street or for the tools of our trade
The retail world is the same wherever you go a rolls for the rich a ford for those not so rich a tailor made suit or one of the peg so why should woodturning be any different

[woody]

I remember a shop who had for year sold a guys turnings and he got old and his turning had suffered so they ask me to put my stuff in there shop which I declined how could I take an 80 year old mans purpose away from him I knew this man and all he had left in life was his turning I couldn't take that from him nor could I begrudge him selling them
A farm shop on the A17 was selling turnings that to be kind were rustic and when I got talking to the woman it turns out it was her old Dad who made them and he was blind and every penny raised from selling them went to charity so I purchased one and was thankful for the lesson
I  also had a friend who no matter what could not get the hang of turning well not to a good standard but he got a lot of pleasure from trying and he gave every thing away or sold them and he did for charity
Do we tell these old men they have got to give up just because we the so called pro's can hope to sell more ? I am now an old man and I have had to give up due to ill health and I know how much it hurt and who knows were we will all end up 

[thebowlerhattedturner]

So I have read all of the replies and I must admit to feeling a little bit guilty after reading them,not a lot mind you. If you make an item and it comes out the shape you want it to then you have achieved a goal, it is not for me to criticise the shape just to say if I like it or not, if it works for me etc. If you turn a piece to the shape you want and you end up with torn grain, attempt to sand it out and then give up I will criticise your work.That is poor workmanship. I still feel that basic supplies should reflect present day prices but can see how timber bought years ago can be cheaper. If you are making stuff for charity why don't you have a sign up that says it's for charity, I might even buy a piece myself or just donate. I do not have a problem with shabby chic work if it is intended to look like that but I do have a problem when there has been a half arsed attempt to finish it with the final attitude of "that will do".
 If we want to advance the craft, raise standards and show that our work is just as valuable as ceramics or glass , (apart from a boot sale or such like and the seconds shop when was the last time you saw a glass makers work being sold off cheap?) we must do all we can to show woodturning in a good light.
This was not a craft fair or market this was a shop that I visited, everything in the shop was made locally and showed the skill of local makers in a good light, the only area let down was the woodturners.
Regards
John
BHT

[arcos]

For my tuppence worth...

I asked some weeks ago the price of a bowl I had turned, I suspect some of you may remember the post? I was thinking of a price of around 10 Euros max for a little spalted olive bowl and got a LOT of flack for undercharging!

Now, I would happily ship the bowl to a gallery and charge double (I think the minimum suggested price was £25 from you guys). I simply cannot charge that sort of money here, it would sit on a shelf for YEARS, literally!

Free market economy was suggested in a previous post. Absolutely right! Perhaps, for me, a way of looking at my situation is similar to the housing market in the UK. A 2 bed semi in the south east is going to be CONSIDERABLY more expensive for the same house in the North East!

I had some great comments last night about my 'rustic' tea light holders, from an evening FULL of Brits... Not one was interested in buying as they felt that 15 Euros for a set of 3 was too expensive! When asked how much they would pay they came back with anything between 3 and 7 euros... Sorry that would just about cover the electricity used for the lathe and lighting! So they will stay on the bar and receive compliments!

The same with the little pendants I have turned. Asking price 5 Euros. Not one sold, why? Too expensive! Now, the 5 euro asking price was suggested by someone who I actually gave one to. That is how much they would pay for something like this. It seems that others have different ideas. I was thinking of selling them for 3.50 without fittings and 4.00 with fittings... This is likely to generate a little more interest and hopefully sell a few. After all, I didn't turn them to look nice for the next 6 months gathering dust! I really have NO idea what they would sell for in the UK but here I think that is going to be about the market price.

I am going to be sending a number over to London in two weeks time to be advertised on a friends craft website. The clientele are 95% 'society Londonites' and, I hope, will pay a premium price. I have someone who is going to take my wares to every market possible here and sell them for me on a commission. I will be looking at selling at the 3.50 - 4.00 Euros per piece AND paying a commission! If I can sell the volume then it will be worth while. If not then whats the point?

And, no, I'm not looking at this as a business but yes, I would like to earn a few beer tokens! Oh and yes I will have to register myself as a legal business here and pay tax and accountant etc etc etc.

There are a couple of pieces that I have been asked to sell and refused. Not on the basis of price but on the basis of quality. One piece in particular which I am very happy with as a display piece, simply does not work as a practical piece for sale. I have told this particular client that, when I get the right piece of wood I will turn one especially for them but it will be to a saleable quality!

Quality, 90% of the time, will outsell over price BUT there must be a limit, thats just economics, and finding the ceiling is the trick for your market.

[BrianH]

Oh Arc, what have you done? You began with a relavent analogy about house selling in different regions and then followed up by trying to sell woody bits to bar hounds. Your stuff WILL sell for the right price but only if you offer it to the right people in the right surroundings.....In my opinion, that is
On the bigger subject I wonder why folks on forums get so het up about other folks lives.. Live and let live to both buyer and seller I say.
Tarra
Brian

[Kevin Hanley]

At the risk of being controversial........

I know some turners for whom the pleasure of woodturning is in the process rather than the end result (well, that's what they say anyway) so when it comes to selling the price achieved for their work is immaterial, they simply want to shift stock.

Regards....and keep the dialogue going

Kevin

[arcos]

Oh Arc, what have you done? You began with a relavent analogy about house selling in different regions and then followed up by trying to sell woody bits to bar hounds. Your stuff WILL sell for the right price but only if you offer it to the right people in the right surroundings.....In my opinion, that is
On the bigger subject I wonder why folks on forums get so het up about other folks lives.. Live and let live to both buyer and seller I say.
Tarra
Brian

Selling woody bits to bar hounds! I like that!

The bar is of course a 'cultural bar' with lots of 'monied' people, artists, photographers, hippies (ooppss) and even a film director!

For me it is a good blend of people and nationalities for displaying a few items. Next month will start the tourists who will want to take a piece of Portugal home with them WON'T THEY!

And yes live and let live but for those in business it is THEIR living that is damaged by 'amateurs' giving the stuff away!

I recognise this now and will NOT give my things away BUT I cannot charge what is perhaps the going rate in the UK!

[TONY MALIN]

Keep the dialogue going ----------
Glenn Lucas in Ireland shows how to run a business. He even has a market for his shavings.
Tony Malin

[arcos]

Thats cool...

I too have a market for my shavings....

Someone saw the pile that I was cleaning up (I seem to make MORE shavings than pieces) and wanted to buy them!

Suggested I bag them up and sell them a euro a bag!

Nice little earner for sweeping up!