What does it take to 'go pro'

[Graham]

In another thread Pete ( Bodrighy ) asked Les ( Gwyntog) if he was going to go full time yet.
I consider I am now to old to worry about the faff of something like that ( and I am kind of glad about that ) but I thought it was a fascinating question. What does it take to be a full time turner ?
Discuss -

[Doug Barratt]

What does it take to be a full time turner ?
Discuss -

A desire to earn money the hard way  . + a partner with a decent second income,(first more probably) helps, or being retired   

[Les Symonds]

As a part-time turner, thinking of taking the plunge.....that's one of those questions that could take a hefty book to answer, and I guess that each of us would have different priorities. For me, the list is something like this...

• A natural 'feel' for wood and form
• an ability to mentally visualise a shape/object coupled with the skills to turn that idea into a reality
• a bit of experience of what sells and what doesn't
• a bit of experience as to what sort of venue makes a good sales outlet
• a life-changing incident that's giving me the motivation to give it a go
• an existing stock-pile of timber/finishes etc
• a workshop(small) packed with machines, tools and other equipment
• bags of help from the guys in this forum
• bags of friends and shop/gallery-owners who give me encouragement
• a family that has grown up and fled the nest
• a mortgage that's paid off
• an application to join the RPT

....and I suspect there'd be other things that I will think of as I go along.

I should add, that a year ago, I wouldn't have dreamed of this and I do hope that nobody thinks that I'm being arrogant in writing some of the bullet-points above. I'm as amazed as the next guy that I've discovered the ability to turn. I might not light up the arts-establishment with my ideas, but people around here like what i do and I have no difficulty selling....so I might well give it a go.

Les

[bodrighywood]

There are a few such as Richard Findley and Simon Hope who have been turning or involved with it professionally almost straight from school bit most come into it either via a hobby interest or sometimes through being in the wood working industry and specialising. It takes a desire to create things in wood but not necessarily a lot of money, most pros I know earn a big part of their income from demos and teaching, some by writing books and articles. Unless you become well enough to live off making things that you like making you will also need to face the fact that a good part of your money will come from making things that aren't exactly your first choice. I have just finished an order for a couple of dozen giant knitting needles and have a fixed order for 200 tapestry bobbins for example, not overly enthralling but nice little earners. You also need to have a level of competency that is not based on how good you think you are (that can vary both ways) but on what your peers and the buying public think. If you apply to join the RPT for example you have to be recommended by members and are then assessed. Not the easiest of lives but (at least for me) a lot better than an office or 9-5 job.

Pete

[Graham]

As you say Pete, many pros seem to earn a large chunk of their income from demonstrations and teaching sessions. Nothing wrong with that but it does mean that being a skilled turner is possibly not enough, you need teaching skills ( and a lot of patience ? ) and you need acting skills that will allow you to perform in front of a biggish audience, and I guess you need people skills that  will allow you to cope with getting the same questions all the time.
You must need to be truly a multi tasker. My hat is off to all  of you.

[edbanger]

Graham with Les's bullet points coupled with Pete's comments you have the answer.

But you don't have to be a member of the RPT to go professional, you just need to be able to make a living out of woodturning.

Hopefully I can make the grade one day 

Ed

[Bryan Milham]

As for standing up in front of an audience and doing a demonstration, it can be a bit daunting if you've never had to do anything like it before.

However the AWGB do run a Demonstrators course, more biased to giving you the understanding of what is involved and a bit of practice. Application forms are available from the Main site menu.

Having said that (and done it), nothing beats standing up in front of your own club and doing something, either part of a Hand-on evening, half an evening with another of a full evenings demo. I say your own club because;

. It's daunting, you know them and they know you, they are your immediate peers, and...
. They are forgiving because they know it's your first (or second) time.

Another good experience is when the club is at a show or similar, they always need people who will stand up and turn something for the paying public to watch, ask questions of and be enthralled by.

[seventhdevil]

it took me to be made redundant to push me in to going full time.

i don't really consider myself a pro turner as i don't do just woodturning. i'm a trained joiner and furniture maker so still do those too.


my tips are,

be flexible and don't turn down jobs unless they are way out of your league or lathe capabilities.

find something that you are good at and stick to it giving yourself something that you are really good at whilst leaving yourself open to other projects.

i was lucky to find that my current market is quite demanding and needed a good supply of timber so if possible get as many contacts as possible for future reference.

don't be scared to keep costs down by buying in bulk like in metres at a time rather than just a few cubic feet...


have tons of enthusiasm and don't be scared to ask questions if you don't know what to do...

[GBF]

To go full time as a woodturner or anything else for that matter you do not have to have any qualifications or even be a good turner you simply go self employed and call yourself a pro woodturner.

But to make a living from turning that is a very different thing.
As Pete said there are very few turners in this country if any that can earn a living from what they produce as a turner.
Most if not all earn money from making,teaching and demonstrating.
To make money from what you make you have to be able to turn out work that is perfect and sell it in good galleries.Good galleries will not accept work that is not perfect and you will not earn anything from craft fairs,
To teach you have to have a very good all round knowledge of the craft and be able to put it over to students in a way that they can understand.
You need to remember that you are teaching and passing on your knowledge not showing your student how clever you are.
To demonstrate you have to have a very good all round knowledge of your craft be outgoing ,confident .
But just because somebody is a good turner it does not necessarily follow that they are able to teach or demonstrate.


Regards George

[Graham]

But just because somebody is a good turner it does not necessarily follow that they are able to teach or demonstrate.


Regards George

My point exactly, though I am not for one moment suggesting this might apply to Les.

[edbanger]

George

Surely if you intent to sell your work then it should be perfect, having only been to one craft fair (this weekend) to see a couple of woodturners who's work in both cases was without fault I assumed that someone would not turn up to an event with sub standard work.

Sadly with your comment I guess this not the case.

Ed

[Richard Findley]

Speaking from a personal view point, I'm a full time production turner and the only source of income for our household, so I have to earn money to feed the family. I've heard it said that it 'hard making a living as a pro turner' but I don't think it's any harder than making a living from being a sparky or a plumber. I take the jobs that come in and make what people want, same as any other skilled professional. But then I don't have a burning desire to be an artist or feel the need to 'express myself' through what I make. My thing is that I like and perhaps need to make things in wood.

Everything I make is to commission, I don't make work speculatively. I can't afford to spend a week or two making something for it then to spend 6 months in a gallery shelf. I need to keep my cash flow going. I might be wrong, but it seems to me, the guys who do purely make art pieces either have a large pension or a wife with a large income. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, but it is largely true.

What you need to make it as a professional, I'd say is passion, skill, some sort of business brain and a professional outlook. There are too many turners out there who reinforce the stereotype of an old boy in their shed tinkering. Something I hear far too often is 'I asked my friend/neighbour/family friend who's a woodturner and said he could make it but that was 6 months ago' I say 'no problem, it'll be £X and ready in 2-3 weeks', and it is. It makes it easy for people to do business with me and people are surprised by it.

I could make my living entirely from my turning, but IMHO it has to be better and more profitable to have several lines of income. Production, demos, articles and my line in woodturning supplies keep things interesting and the cash flowing. I occasionally do teaching but rarely now as I don't enjoy it so much and can make more from turning than teaching. Demonstrating however, I love. Not only does it get me out of the workshop and give me a chance to talk to someone other than myself, but I just love the buzz I get from a good demo, and I've managed to travel a bit too, which is nice!

As far as joining the RPT is concerned, there has been a recent effort to make sure we accept the right people as members, and rather than the old rule of 'a majority of your income coming from turning' to looking more towards being professional and having a professional outlook, so ensuring people are not only skilled turners but have a professional attitude toward work and business, that they are registered with the tax man, charge proper rates, carry proper insurances etc etc. which hopefully everyone would agree is more important than having the majority of your income being from turning (which if you are retired then it would be!)

Les, I am no expert or guru, but feel free to give me a call if you feel you need to pick my brain or need any advice on anything as far as becoming a pro.

Cheers

Richard

[bodrighywood]

George

Surely if you intent to sell your work then it should be perfect, having only been to one craft fair (this weekend) to see a couple of woodturners who's work in both cases was without fault I assumed that someone would not turn up to an event with sub standard work.

Sadly with your comment I guess this not the case.

Ed

I wish that this was true Ed but unfortunately there are turners and other crafters as well who seem to think if it is 'hand made' that's good enough. I do only one or two craft fairs as such a year and am usually the only turner but in the past I have been amazed at the lack of quality of much of the work at the smaller events and many of the fairs are like boot sales with potential customers balking at the idea of something in wood costing more than a tenner. Most of the shows I do now have a policy of wanting to assess your work before taking you on which I think is a good idea. Richard makes a lot of valid points in his post and if you want to see me get annoyed (something that is very rare) tell me you are selling your work and haven't registered with the taxman, don't have PPI and are just selling stuff at cost price to pay for more wood. I do shows partly because they are something I enjoy, interacting with the public, partly because it gets my name out there often culminating in commissions and requests for demos or teaching and partly because I do get a reasonable amount of income from them. I do it to earn a living and so have to make sure that my work is good enough to gain a decent reputation, repeat orders is perhaps a sign of that. I am perhaps fortunate in having a partner with 30 years experience as a top furniture designer so I get told off if something is poorly made or designed before it gets anywhere near a show but I know I will never be totally satisfied with anything I make for long and whilst I have a standard I set for my work I always assume I could do better. A Richard says "What you need to make it as a professional, I'd say is passion, skill, some sort of business brain and a professional outlook." I would add that you also need to be willing to make things not just because you want to but because the buying public wants them, be it commission work or for shows.

Pete

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

I echo all of the points mentioned here.
This is my only income, earnt from jobbing turnery the same as Richard but also from gallery work as George and Pete do and also teaching and demonstrating and when I can convince editors to publish a bit of writing too. But for me it is more than the money I can earn, it is a way of life. I meet different people every day(most days)I generally work for nice people. Those that I know through the trade, which includes those names from the world of turning that we all know or know of ,are nice people.... usually. Go backstage at one of the shows ,for instance Yandles coming up soon, and the friendly atmosphere and mickey taking, the story telling and the over exuberance and enthusiasm all add up to making it an enjoyable occupation.  To travel around the clubs and see what other turners have made or to revisit and have turners show you something that you inspired them to make is a lovely feeling. To know that you have passed your knowledge on to others, particularly the next generation is so satisfying. But to be a professional turner is more than just skill with a chisel on a lathe.
It is an attitude, a willingness to teach and to be taught. To never accept 2nd best and never knowingly produce poor quality goods. There is a design aspect to consider,( it p's me off when I see TV chefs serving food on an Oak platter, one of the most unhygienic timbers to use)so knowledge of timber and its uses is a must along with suitability of design and manufacture.
 There is a charitable aspect too, skilled turners are always being asked to make various bits and pieces for local charities and the professional turner should, IMHO,lead by example, obviously we have to be careful as this is how we earn a living but it does no harm to turn the odd bit for charity and as a result the reputation of the turner and turners as a whole is enhanced. We earn part of the living teaching, but that should not prevent us from sometimes just showing a beginner how to do beads or coves or whatever for free.
Most of the users on this forum have probably never met (who said Hooray?) but that has not prevented a friendly and helpful atmosphere building up between us, I know it can get a bit hot sometimes but such is life, but generally we are a nice bunch.
So to those of you that are thinking of going full time ask yourselves this...Do you want to be happy or rich? if the answer is happy then you may very well succeed as a professional turner, if the answer is rich you may end up disappointed. So my list will read a bit like this-
Skill with all tools not just woodturning related.
Teaching ability/qualifications.
A bit of an actor/comedian.
A good navigator ( to find the obscure club locations).
Honesty.
An easy going manner.
And last but not least extreme good looks.

[Bryan Milham]

And last but not least extreme good looks.

I'd add a beard helps here, eh John!